With the recent release of the second album from CIRCU5, ‘Clockwork Tulpa’, it seemed to be the right time to ask the question…
Kevin Rowland: Who, what or when is Steve Tilling?
Steve Tilling: I increasingly ask myself these questions. As the lyrics say in our song, Change the Weather: 'I'm blurring at the edges, disappearing in the parts I'm playing.' Up to around ten years ago, I had a pretty good sense of identity. But now, with every atom in my brain and body different to those I was born with, I think I'm basically semi-sentient meat wheezing through each day trying not to harm others.
KR: Who initially inspired you to get involved in music, why, and what keeps you motivated?
ST: My parents. When my brother and I were young kids, they asked if we'd like to learn a musical instrument. We did – the guitar. So, we started classical guitar lessons and took the exams. I think music has always been a big thing for me, right from loving Mud's “Tiger Feet” and predicting Abba's Eurovision win in those mustard days of the early seventies. Making music isn't really a choice. It's like trying to ignore an itchy bum. Plus, I don't have anything else. No golf club membership, nothing.
KR: What were you doing prior to CIRCU5, and what inspired that project?
ST: I've been a copywriter most of my adult life. I write words to sell or explain stuff to people. That sometimes involves a lot of corporate stuff and pushing products people don't really need. I wanted to do something with only myself to please, so I decided to start CIRCU5 in 2012. Four years and a hefty medication bill later, I released the debut CIRCU5 album.
KR: The debut album is a strong lyrical concept. Please explain it for those who have not heard it, and what inspired it?
ST: I was interested in the high-functioning end of the psychopath spectrum – people who can harness psychopathic traits like fearlessness and competitiveness, while suppressing negative aspects, such as criminality and impulsivity. I imagined a story where the UK government set up a secret research group, codenamed CIRCU5. The group was trying to nurture individuals with ultra-high-functioning psychopathy to serve the nation’s interests. The debut album and Clockwork Tulpa examine 'Grady' – a man raised in CIRCU5 until the age of three to induce psychopathy, then placed in a loving family to offset that with positive behaviours.
Musically it covers many bases, and even the original press release mentioned the likes of Foo Fighters, QOTSA, King’s X, Cardiacs, Tull and Radiohead (among others). How and why did that come about?
With the debut album, I aimed to make a record that reflected everything I loved about music: melody, harmony, hooks and interesting arrangements. Looking back, I don’t think the comparisons were quite right, especially the grungier bands like Foo Fighters and Queens of the Stone Age. Maybe trying too hard to look cool.
KR: How did you decide you wanted to be involved with the initial project?
STL I got the idea, had a word with myself, and decided I was the right idiot for the job.
KR: One of the things which really stood out for me when I received it, before I even played it, was the amount of work which had been put into the packaging. Why did you decide to make such an investment?
ST: As a kid, I always felt a bit short-changed if an album didn't have decent packaging or lyrics. It spoilt the excitement. I wanted a package that people would feel good about opening – with great artwork, lyrics, and surprises (like the secret CIRCU5 letter in the CD’s back sleeve). It’s expensive to make. But I felt CIRCU5 might be my one chance to get my music out there. So, I wanted to produce something I could feel proud of.
KR: You brought in different guests to assist with the debut. How did you pick those musicians and what did they add to the project?
ST: I'd played in bands with the guests – Dave Gregory, Johnny Warman, Matt Backer, Phil Spalding and Andy Neve. I was worried that the first album might be a bit one-dimensional, just coming from me. I wanted some different perspectives. Each lifted the songs beyond expectations, for example, Dave Gregory's slide guitar in “Strings and Ascension”, Johnny Warman's fairground barker performance in “The Amazing Monstrous Grady”, and Andy Neve's eerie synths in “Days Erased”.
KR: Were you surprised at the positive reaction to the debut? At what point did you decide to bring in musicians to turn CIRCU5 into a band as opposed to a studio project, and why?
ST: More grateful than surprised, I think. I felt I'd made a good album. I wouldn't have released it if I thought it was rubbish so to have such a great response was fantastic and helped validate the hard work that went into it. I hope that doesn't sound arrogant: I know it's not for everyone.
KR: It has taken eight years between the two albums. Why did it take so long, and what have you been doing musically in the meantime?
ST: I got involved in bands featuring members of the British band XTC (Making Plans for Nigel, Senses Working Overtime etc). That took me away from CIRCU5 for some time. I did theme music for a John Lennon documentary (‘Borrowed Time’) that's just come out in cinemas. I also got Long Covid. Before I knew it, seven years had passed. But I knuckled down from 2023, and we finished the second album in late 2024.
KR: The new album is the first as a band as opposed to a solo project. How did you find the right guys to work with and what makes this album musically different to the last one?
ST: I met the drummer, Lee Moulding, as part of the band TC&I – the outfit founded by his dad, Colin, from XTC. We got on well. After watching him play with his band, I thought he'd be the perfect drummer for CIRCU5. I first encountered the bass player, Mark Kilminster, at a gig by his band, Tin Spirits, which coincidentally featured Dave Gregory on guitar. His playing and singing impressed me. We didn't chat at the gig, but I got in touch afterwards and managed to coax him into the band. They're fantastic – lovely chaps and great musicians.
I think the debut album was very varied. There are a lot of genres on there: prog, hard rock, space rock, folk, electronica (no skiffle, mind). I don't think variety is a bad thing. Good music exists in all different styles. At the time, I thought the debut might be my only chance to release an album and I wanted to put out as much of the things I love as possible.
To me, our second album, ‘Clockwork Tulpa’, is a little more focused. It still has everything I love – powerful songs with proggy elements, and an emphasis on melody and harmony – but with fewer diversions into areas like acoustic folk. The songs are a bit shorter too. Most are around three to four minutes long. Not everything needs to be a 20-minute symphony. You can pack a lot of music into a few minutes.
KR: Where did the title for the new album come from, and please explain 'Tulpa' and why you felt it was fitting.
ST: ‘Clockwork Tulpa’ captures what Grady has become – a wind-up toy for a cult. On this album, he's joined a renegade group of 'CIRCU5 Freaks' hellbent on bringing down the CIRCU5 organisation. They operate like a hierarchical cult and have brainwashed Grady into becoming their messianic leader. A 'Tulpa' is a term from Tibetan Buddhism, it's a 'thought form', an entity created through intense spiritual concentration. I felt it linked well with the story, as the cult has willed Grady into being.
KR: It has been eight years since the debut. Why did you feel the need to continue with the story of Grady?
ST: I've always seen it as a trilogy. But I think our music is accessible enough for people to appreciate without getting into the story. The Grady story frees me to write songs about subjects I find interesting, without sounding forced. It's a metaphor for navigating negative internal and external influences throughout life.
KR: Yet again, the packaging is wonderful, and the images and photography are obviously important to the songs. How long did it take to get this together and what were you attempting to achieve?
ST: Thanks. It took around a year and a half, from Jennie Anderson (artist/designer) and Lou Dommett Young (photographer) devising the ideas. We met several times to discuss the album's story and themes. From the start, we wanted the package to reflect the debut album's look and feel but the story setting on this album is wider than the debut, so we aimed for more colour and panoramas. Lou and Jennie did an incredible job. ‘Clockwork Tulpa’ sits perfectly alongside the debut while taking the art to a new level.
KR: Musically the album is far punchier and again highly melodic and feels quite commercial. Was this a deliberate change or something which happened naturally?
ST: I remember thinking I wanted something fresh and edgy – more of a sweet and sour sorbet than stew and dumplings. It's just personal taste. Some rock sounds lumpy to my ears and I wanted something that was lighter on its feet. If there was any manifesto (which there wasn't), I'd say I was aiming for melodic, punchy and exciting.
KR: What did Lee and Mark bring to the band?
ST: Lee is an all-round musician. He comes up with great song ideas and melodies. Soon after he joined CIRCU5, he sent me a video of a song idea. It was just him on an acoustic guitar singing a gorgeous melody. It tickled my brain, and I knew straightaway it would be a great song. His idea became “Scars”, the last track on the album. He comes up with rhythms and melodies I'd never expect, but that always seem to work.
The same goes for Mark. His bass lines just work. They're always interesting and inventive, and perfect for the song. They both have an innate feel for what's right. Apart from their musical talents, they're also very grounded people. If I'm ever unsure or worried about something, I know I can call on them for advice.
KR: What is next for CIRCU5?
ST The big news is we've just welcomed a new member to the band: Paul New on lead guitar and vocals. For many years, I've seen Paul performing in various bands, and always admired his talent. When I started CIRCU5 in 2012, Paul was the first person to like what I was doing so to have him in the band now is a dream come true.
Now Paul's in the band, we have the right people to go out on the road. We're busy rehearsing for future gigs. And we're writing new songs for the next record. And one thing's for sure: I really don't want the third album to take as long as the second!
Photos: Dommett Young Photography, www.dommettyoung.pic-time.com/portfolio
To visit the world of CIRCU5, please visit www.circu5.com or join the band's 'CIRCU5 Freaks' Facebook group at www.facebook.com/groups/Circu5Freaks. Their music is available at https://open.spotify.com/artist/2BIrwSY144b3FWLo2YugfG?si=6TIsbTBeTqmpnMhz9w868w and their YouTube channel is https://www.youtube.com/c/CIRCU5.
