It has been a while since the man behind The Bob Lazar Story, Matt Deacon, and myself caught up for a beer. So, given that there is a new album out, it seemed like a good time to have another chat.
Kevin Rowland: Given you live in Christchurch, New Zealand, and drummer Chris Jago lives Los Angeles, how did the original band get together and then how did Chris get roped into it?
Matt Deacon: After studying Audio Engineering circa 2005 I recorded "(sic)", on my own, apart from two songs Simon Fox played drums on. He and I were both teaching at the same music shop in Chch and he is a brilliant drummer. Studio time was hard to come by then, but we were able to get into the studio at MAINZ (Music And Audio Institute NZ) and one of my pals engineered the drum recording. The rest of that album was programmed drums by myself, which were OK but not real enough.
So I roped Simon into another three tracks on the next release - The Silence of Perez de Cuellar - and used an online service for another two. I had recorded bass parts myself but then met Mike Fudakowski at a high school I was also teaching at. He's a magnificent bass player and liked the tunes so he replaced my parts with good ones. I pretended to like Dungeons & Dragons to curry favour with him. He knew Kev Roberts, a drummer who was Head Of Music at a school near me. Fud suggested we approach Kev to put a small live band together as we could use the school as rehearsal space too. Kev was the only Dixie Dregs fan I had ever met in NZ so seemed a good fit.
We worked on four songs I had written for Space Roots and recorded them in Kev's classroom. Around this time we also played a few gigs in Chch and Lyttelton which was fun, but was an awful lot of rehearsing. Kev also recruited a great keyboard player for us - Nathan Peters, who played all the gigs we did.
As Fud and myself both had young kids (not with each other), gigs weren't a priority. At this time I also re-connected with Chris Jago via FB. I had met Chris at Music College in Liverpool in 1993 and we played together a few times in college ensembles and then I used to occasionally sub for the guitarist of the covers band he was in. But this was a time before e mail had arrived, so we lost contact when I moved to NZ in 1997. He popped up on my Facebook around 2009 and I convinced him to play on about three songs on Space Roots. I also used the online service again, so Space Roots ended up having three drummers on it. But it was a nightmare putting the album together as me and the fam packed up and moved back to Liverpool for a year and my PC crapped itself. So it was a four year process putting Space Roots together. It's a miracle it was even released, to be honest.
I found the process of working with Chris to be very satisfying. I really wanted a bit more cohesion for future releases, as Space Roots was a bit all over the place sonically, so I got Chris on board for the next release - Ghost Of Foodstool. This EP/mini album felt like a fresh start, after the craziness of putting Space Roots together. Chris can be very busy - he's often playing in musicals in the States, as well as doing various other sessions. He also got the Neil Diamond gig a couple years back. Unfortunately Neil had to retire through poor health though, so that was short lived. But given the quality of his playing, I'm always prepared to wait until Chris is available to do some recording.
KR: How does your Trans-Pacific writing collaboration work?
MD: I write the music bits with the aid of the drummer app in Logic, then send Chris these demo files both with and without the programmed drums. Then I chart them out in a simple(!) way and Chris interprets it how he feels. I might then tweak a couple bits or add some more stuff in as his parts usually spark some different ideas. I see it as a total collaboration and love getting his parts back. He engineers and mixes all the drums at his home studio - Shabby Road Studios, and frankly does an incredible job. We'll have the occasional Skype conversation where we'll secretly marvel at each other's completely different versions of Scouse accents, but we usually just stick to back and forths on messenger. We share a dropbox where files get exchanged and working song names get more convoluted i.e apr17100bpm1_2nomaster etc.
It has worked out well so far. I think I'm quite easy to work with, very accommodating. I've only ever asked Chris to tweak something maybe twice. If he does something I wasn't prepared for, i tend to just incorporate it, make it work for me. I can definitely cause steam to escape from his ears though. Occasionally my charts haven't quite matched up to the demo recordings. I used to write charts for him by hand, but for Vanquisher I used Sibelius to produce much neater charts. It was way more accurate too, as it was just a case of loading a midi file of the Logic projects into Sibelius and it would spit out a lovely looking chart.
KR: You have previously described your band as "purveyors of tritonal wankery, and offer an oasis of ProgMathsyFusion to soothe your weary earholes." What do you mean and how would you describe yourselves in terms of other artists?
MD: Tritonal wankery came about as I wrote a lot of riffs with tritonal jumps in them at the time. If anyone ever gets a package from me in the post, it usually has a sticker on it that says "Purveyor of tritonal wankery". ProgMathsyFusion is a description that covers a lot of musical ground. Definitely Prog moments, although I'm not a massive fan of classic Prog. I like Mathsy music full of odd timings like Zappa. The modern iteration of Math Rock is completely different and not my thing. And there are bits of fusion spread about, but not endless wanky solos.
I find when I have to describe the sound of The Bob Lazar Story, I usually just write "for fans of Zappa, Keneally, Cardiacs, GG." A diverse group. No one sounds like Zappa, but he's a massive influence. As is Mike Keneally. I came to Cardiacs quite late on, only about five years ago, but they were a musical epiphany for me. Super complicated yet direct and in your face. Amazing melodies and ensemble playing. It turns out that Tim Quy who was percussionist for Cardiacs, was a fan of ours before I had even heard of them, which blew my mind. I'd say apart from Zappa, nothing has ever floored me as much as Cardiacs tunes have. Absolutely mesmerising.
Although we get lumped into the Prog genre, which is all good with me, I've only listened to a tiny bit of Yes, never heard ELP before and I've tasted a tiny smattering of Jethro Tull. I like a few Gentle Giant songs. I grew up listening to Metal then went down a small jazz road for a bit before someone played me some Zappa. I can take or leave all his comedy stuff, but the super tight, busy ensemble work is what I'm really into. Echidna's Arf (Of You) could be my favourite song of all time. But how do we classify that? I do love classic Gabriel era Genesis though. Foxtrot is a perfect album. I know that one well, plus The Lamb stuff. But that's about it for me and Prog. I think I prefer music that defies categorisation. Mr Bungle would be a prime example - California is a real masterpiece. I listen to a lot of French stuff lately - Poil, Hardcore Anal Hydrogen, Ni. All crazy stuff. Progressive in the sense that they do stuff that is very different, very original. Lost Crowns, who are also with BEM, really tickle my fancy too. They play all the notes, seemingly all at the same time, but pull it off spectacularly. I guess they might fall into the Psychedelic category, who knows?
So all these bands are definitely influences for sure. However, I think TBLS sound like TBLS.
KR: What is your obsession with Foodstool?
MD: I used to have a stool in my music room that I would bring into the lounge to eat my dinner off. It became affectionately known as Foodstool. The first album had The Progressive Adventures of Foodstool on it, and as a fan of conceptual continuity from my Zappa-love, I thought it would be great to include Foodstool on every subsequent release. I have no intention of ever stopping. Foodstool was stolen from our garage while we were in the UK. I'm lucky I had a photo of it. I traced this photo and coloured it white for the front cover of Ghost Of Foodstool. You can also get Foodstool t shirts from our merch page. I'm toying with the idea of Foodstool Hot Sauce. But who would want a food product with the word stool in it? Not every idea is a great one.
KR: Why name the band after Bob Lazar, what fascinates you about him? Does he know there is a band carrying his name?
MD: I've been fascinated with the topic of UFOs since I was a kid, and when Bob went public with his story in about 1989, I heard about it even though there was no internet back then, and the topic was essentially an opportunity for ignorant folk to chime into serious conversations with "Little Green Men" asides and overall snarkiness. Even Roswell wasn't known about much back then. I actually released an album in 2004 under my real name with songs that turned out to be prototypes for subsequent releases. However, I thought it would appear like I was some sort of singer songwriter so decided on a name change. Not sure why I thought this would be a good idea. Maybe I thought I could draw in the UFO crowd as potential fans. I was definitely playing the long game, and now I feel this is finally paying off, as Bob Lazar is back in the mainstream news again. There is currently a doco on Netflix about him, and he went on Joe Rogan's podcast recently. My Twitter followers went up 25% in a month (as of writing, we are up to 525!) and I get tagged in many conversations on Twitter as a lot of people assume I am Bob Lazar. (@boblazarstory) (525!)
Bob did get in touch once to enquire about our name. I sent him a download code. He likes the music. A few years back he said they were making a film about him and he would try and get some of our tunes in it. I never took him seriously. At least I think it was him. He's a very intriguing character, and if it was all bullshit, you'd have to wonder what was in it for him. He hasn't benefitted financially from it. He keeps a super low profile, but is still harassed by the alphabet soup agencies. If true, his story could be one of the most important ever told.
KR: The Bob Lazar Story has been a band, then a duo, and this time Mike Fudakowski has again become involved. Why did he leave and then come back?
MD: Fud was heavily involved in an 8 year long Dungeons and Dragons campaign and couldn't be disturbed. He escaped with his life, just, and I brought him back on board for a few tunes. Also, during recording Self Loathing Joe and Baritonia, I was super busy with being a Postie and was getting burnt out due to stress and whatnot, so I found it easier to just get on with the music side of things myself.
KR: Please explain the rationale behind the rather eclectic song titles on the new album 'Vanquisher'
MD: When I was back in college, I couldn't think of names for tunes, they were just numbered. How fucking pretentious, right? I sometimes ask friends and fans for suggestions. My pal KD (stan) Baxter came up with In The Woods With Tony Iommi for the last album, and he's come up with Hooves & Broken Biscuits for this one, although I'll bet he will claim not to remember. Song titles are fun, particularly when there are no lyrics to suggest anything. I will break a couple down for you.
Pongville - I play cards every week with some mates. This is a reference to a rule in the game. I thought, if I do this, then they might buy the album.
Eleven - I can't stand Stranger Things. Plus, it's in 11/4
Goodbye Victor Tripaldi - An admin from the Progressive Rock Fanatics page on FB was being verbally abused by a guy, so banned him, and followed it up with "Goodbye Victor Tripaldi". I suggested it would be a great name for a band. Got over 20 likes for that, wow. So hopefully, once I post this song to the page, someone might buy the album.
Two For The Rest - this is a oft repeated phrase at the Port of Lyttelton where I work as a cargo handler. If the ship has finished loading, they sometimes opt to keep two guys on the wharf and send the other four home. Hopefully, when some of my wharfie mates see this title, they might buy the album.
Operation Full Klinger - I left my old job through redundancy. I had a long term plan of convincing my bosses I was crazy so they would have to pay me to leave. It worked better than I thought it would, as life imitated art and I actually went a bit crazy for a while. Just at the right time, as we were going through a round of redundancies. I had told a couple workmates of my plan at the time, and dubbed it Operation Full Klinger. Hopefully they will remember this and might buy the album. There seems to be a pattern here.
Project Top Secret & Eyes Only - This is for UFO buffs. Hopefully they might buy the album.
Tony!! - Self-evident really
KR: If the cover art of the last album, 'Baritonia', was the coffee stain of the mug from 'Self-Loathing Joe', what is the meaning behind the artwork this time?
MD: Once again, conceptual continuity comes into play. The coffee stain is actually on the white stool from Ghost Of Foodstool, so it goes back even further. The link to this new album appears when you take the disc out of the tray in the digipak. I have taken the coffee stain and reversed it on top of itself, creating a striking portrait of myself.
The chilli pepper on the front of Vanquisher is that shape for a reason that will only be revealed on the next release. I can say no more. Apart from telling you that I'm mildly obsessed with hot sauce. Going further back, the flying saucer from the first album "(sic)" appears inside the booklet of The Silence of Perez de Cuellar (another UFO story, google it). Space Roots is the outlier here. No connections to previous or subsequent releases. Although every release has the little chicken with the speech bubble somewhere in it.
KR: How did you become involved with the Great Elephant?
MD: About three years ago, BEM kept on popping up on my feed, signing bands left, right and centre. I wanted some of that juicy action. So I sent David Elephant an e mail with a link to the Bandcamp page and said "I think I want to be on your label." He got back to me the next day and promised me the moon on a stick. And here we are. The Bob Lazar Story might very well be the smallest act on their impressive roster, and David has probably regretted his impulsive behaviour ever since. BUT HERE WE ARE.
I love that BEM has a roster of really quite diverse and sometimes very unusual artists.
KR: There are some very like-minded musicians on BEM, can you see yourself playing with any of them?
MD: Like I just said, we are probably the smallest act on the roster, so I'm reluctant to suggest collaborations, in case it's seen as a ploy to boost our profile at the expense of theirs. But if anyone were to ask me, I would most likely be into it. Unless it was Tom Slatter. He's weird.
Simon Godfrey literally shits music, he's so prolific. As is Tom Slatter. He's obsessed with Steampunk, whatever that is. I like the direction We Are Kin have moved in, more synthy, less guitars. I like that The Fierce And The Dead do their own thing and don't worry about not having a vocalist. Their continued success is encouraging for other instrumental acts out there. I can see myself playing with any and all of these people. I can also see them looking at me, and asking themselves "who is that?".
KR: The album is out, are you going to be performing anywhere in the near future or do you just see this as a studio project?
MD: No plans to gig. Rehearsing is an issue, as is scheduling. I'm a shift worker and essentially on call every day until I have worked six shifts in a two week cycle. These six shifts often get stretched out over the two weeks, so it's hard to plan things. Plus, Chris lives in LA, which makes it tricky. I'm happy just recording tunes, even though I have enjoyed playing in the past. As i mentioned earlier, rehearsing takes a good while with these kinds of tunes, so an extraordinary amount of commitment would be required from all parties concerned.
KR: What is next for TBLS?
MD: I have an EP of totally batshit stuff in the works. Vanquisher has turned out to be a slightly mellower affair in parts, so I left some more, shall we say, crazy tunes out so as not to mess with the flow. I shall be developing these ones and then I'll try to convince Chris that it's a good idea for him to play on them. Besides that, I shall continue to badger people into listening. It's hard work these days. Spotify and streaming in general makes it hard for anyone to make any money doing this kind of thing. Praise the lord for Bad Elephants.
